MyDD :: Obama Is Toast -

Obama Is Toast - - Toast

by johnnygunn, Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:23:08 PM EST

Let's see if I get this right. It's late October. I turn on my TV and flip through the channels. On every other channel is an ad with a preacher saying, "God damn America!!" On the other channels there is an ad with a picture of a big Georgian mansion next to another picture of a tenement building. Then a voiceover, "Is this the kind of change you want?"

Sure it's nasty. Sure it's Rovian. But if Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee it is guaranteed to happen. Obama will be lucky if he does as well as McGovern or Mondale. Whether you like the Clinton meme of experience or not, you have to admit that Obama's primary appeal is message. And if his message no longer resonates, his campaign has no chance. Obama does not have to be convicted of any wrongdoing with regards to Rezko. Obama does not have to seen in the sermon videos alongside Rev. Wright. If Obama begins to be perceived as just another Chicago politician, it is all over.

And what's worse - it will be all over for the Democratic Party. I don't know what's worse. I am a very, very, very reluctant Clinton supporter. Why? Because I never believed the Obama message to begin with. I always saw political calculation no different than that done by all other politicians. Fine rhetoric, yes. Superb delivery, yes. But no substance. A politician who had no evidence to support the rhetoric. A person advocating profound change ought to have some record of taking risks, but there were none in Obama's resume.

Please do not get me wrong. Hillary Clinton's picture is in the dictionary next to risk aversion. Sadly, it appears that the Democratic Party is faced with the dilemma of which candidate is going to get defeated this fall. Barack Obama will have more delegates and, probably, more popular votes, but he will also have cement overshoes. Hillary Clinton will have - - well - - Hillary Clinton.

I'm mad at Barack Obama for a lot of reasons. First, if Jeremiah Wright is truly his spiritual advisor, then he should not be so quick to throw him under the bus. Sure gay people are expendable. They can be tossed aside for political gain as Obama did in the Donnie McClurkin Gospel Tour. But Rev. Wright was supposed to be one of the people who had profoundly impacted Obama - who had given him the title "The Audacity of Hope". If Obama is so ready to throw away people that close to him, where exactly do his allegiances lie?

Second, where the fuck were Obama's political advisors prior to and during the early part of the presidential campaign. Hello?? Any undergrad student doing a term paper on Obama could easily find the sermons that Trinity United Church of Christ offers on line. You would think that top political advisors might be aware of them BEFORE, not after the Rovian swiftboaters get to them. If that is the kind of advisor that Obama hires, I am more than a little bit worried about his choices were he to be in the White House.

Third, where is Obama's backbone? Why can't Obama defend Rev. Wright and black people across America by saying that, in fact, black Christianity really is different than white Christianity? That no time during the week is America more segregated than on Sunday morning. That the black church is one of the few institutions where black people have had some autonomy and respite from a society that has failed many, many times to live up to its credo - that all people are created equal. But, no. Michelle Obama hinted at it when she spoke about being proud of America for the first time in her life. But she was shouted down. Now, again, Barack Obama has the opportunity to speak honestly about race. And he backpedals.

And the Democratic Party? What chance does the Democratic Party have of defeating John McCain this November with Obama as its nominee? None. With Hillary Clinton? Practically none. I am certain that African American voters will defect in droves if Obama is denied the nomination and it goes to Clinton - especially if Cynthia McKinney is the Green candidate. And I don't blame them. But Obama can no longer win.

God damn America.
It's over. It won't go away.
So where do we go from here?

(Also posted at Daily Kos)

Tags: Barack Obama, Jeremiah Wright, Hillary Clinton, 2008 Presidential Election (all tags)

Permalink :: 209 Comments :: Post a Comment

He's not toast. (2.00 / 3)

In fact, I am willing to bet Obama actually turns this to his advantage. It allows him to re-affirm his message of inclusion and moving beyond this kind of polarizing rhetoric and the politics of the past.

It's his Sistah Souljah moment.

by Hesiod Theogeny on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:27:54 PM EST

Re: He's not toast. (2.00 / 1)

Sistah Souljah wasn't Clinton's 20-year pastor.
And she didn't say, "God damn America!"

by johnnygunn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:32:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But I bet she did not wear a lapel pin (2.00 / 1)

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:35:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

MSM is being a Wuss (none / 0)

The NYT headline wasn't about Obama's Hellfire preacher, it stated that Obama condemned his statements. Making Obama look noble. They didn't even mention the idiot's rhetoric about Hillary Clinton.
Tomorrow, you'd better believe, they'll bash Clinton bigtime for "balance."
Every time Wright is mentioned on CNN, they make sure there is a black person there to sooth it over with comments like "that's just out of the culture, you just don't understand" kinds of nonsense.
Ferrare should have gotten this gentle, protective treatment.

by earthoat on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:49:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You could have made this argument (none / 0)

twelve months ago.

Basically. You are saying that America won't elect a Black Man who goes to a Black Church with an outspoken Black Preacher.

You should read this diary.

Fwiw, fighting the very bigotry that you favor caving is why many people supported Barack Obama.

Are you suggesting that Barack Obama does not love America? That his message of unity was a sham?

Sounds like that to me.

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Casting Aspersions (2.00 / 3)

John L. Lewis and Barbara Lee are just two of many African American politicians that I would readily support - from the primary thru the general. They've put their careers and reputations on the line over and over again. And they've paid a political price for it since neither would probably be considered presidential material. Because we live in a society where African Americans, women, poor people can never openly challenge the many forms of oppression without paying a serious price.

Call me a bigot, if you will and have already, but I do not think that Barack Obama has done what other politicians, black and white, have done. I see Obama's candidacy as one carefully constructed - and as with all carefully constructed edifices, they are at high risk of collapse.

There is nothing wrong with average. I don't think that there is anything racist about being average. Most people are, by definition, average. But I just do not care to support an average politician for president. That - and nothing else - is the premise of my diary. Obama's candidacy will nosedive as more Americans view him simply as another average politician.

by johnnygunn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:58:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are not a bigot (2.00 / 1)

I've seen no evidence of that.

You are caving to bigotry, imo.

And like I said in response to you on Dailykos, you've set the expectations bar really high for Senator Clinton now. We still have voters to compete for; this isn't over because FOX news ran some videos.

Here's, btw, the full text of what Rev. Wright said:

The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing God Bless America? No, no, no! Not God bless America. God damn America! It's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating its citizens as less than human!

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:17:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are not a bigot (2.00 / 1)

And, despite his choice of words, I believe that Wright speaks truth to power. As many people in the congregation believe, as well.

When you see children killed, when you see young lives destroyed, when you see the utter lack of concern on the part of those with power - you better believe some of us get angry.

Do you believe that New Orleans was an accident?
An uncontrollable act of nature?
If not, what do you come away with?

by johnnygunn on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:43:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

John L. became gutless and buckled (1.00 / 2)

He looked at where his constituents were voting and went against his conscience and stabbed Hillary in the back...to keep power...now, he's just another politician.

by Tony68 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:36:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary is using race to her advantage (2.00 / 1)

She's playing whites against blacks, and in a simple numbers game, whites win. The events of late are just adding more evidence that this is a deliberate--rather than accidental--strategy.

This whole campaign has become a sick fucking joke.

by SleepingWillow on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:42:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Hear You (2.00 / 1)

But I do not believe you.
What evidence?

What really blows my mind is that there are all these racism charges against the Clintons when the real racism comes from the Republicans who have killed thousands of mostly poor/working poor black, brown, and white soldiers. Republicans who have taken decent paying jobs away from working people of color and rewarded corporations for shipping them overseas. Republicans who have denied health care to people of color so that in some urban areas, African Americans have third-world life expectancies.

And it's the Clintons' fault??

by johnnygunn on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:14:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is using race to her advantage (none / 0)

You're making some very serious charges. You should at least have the decency to provide evidence Hillary Clinton is playing whites against blacks? You imply that recent event are proof of her strategy. Again, show some decency, and at least provide specific references that people can verify.

by zenful6219 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 08:59:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I Wouldn't Go That Far (none / 0)

Lewis probably did a little political dance,
But he has also spoken out forcefully in defense of poor people, GLBTI people, victims of the wars in the Middle East.

He remains someone I admire.

by johnnygunn on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:09:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You could have made this argument (none / 0)

Excuse me, but you are judged by the company you keep... don't you know that? Obama said "I don't repudiate the man ..." speaking on Keith Olbermann's show. The pastor married him and his wife, christened his kids, and "is his mentor". OMG. So, he thinks this guy is okay, but doesn't like some of his words? What? You're known by the company you keep, period. I suppose the head of the KKK said some reasonable things, but I have no problem repudiating the entire KKK, regardless of any good they have ever done. This is the beginnning of the end of Obama. "God damn America..." is language that no one, no one in this country should ever say. It is completely disgusting. I'm sorry I voted for Obama for Senator .... and will not for President.

by PracticalMagic on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:38:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

BS Obama claims to be a Unifier (none / 0)

So why didn't he take his children to worship in a bi-racial congregation, with a pastor who preaches brotherly love.

Obama claims to be an enlightened "leader of change."

So why is his spiritual advisor an old fashioned nationalist who admires Farrekhan?

Explain that, KO.

by earthoat on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You could have made this argument (none / 0)

If this Rev Wright is the man that you trust and believe in and has married you and baptized your children sounds to me that Obama must believe in his words too don't you think? I know I could not go to a church for twenty years and not know and believe in the man that was speaking. You are back peddling here and so is the press on this.

20,000 dollars this year and giving him book space says he means a lot to the man right?

The Republicans will take him apart with the reverse racism here can you not see it coming? They will take big guns and big bucks to make ads that will make swiftboating look like milk commercials.

by ricochet on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My point was simply (none / 0)

that the logic of your argument is the same thing people were saying months ago: that the right wing will attack and smear this man and play up the divisions in this country.

And, yes, clearly, they are doing that now. Sean Hannity is a case in point.

But I think it's worth looking at Senator Obama's response and thinking about how a message that has always been, from the 2004 speech forward, about what brings us together in America, about coming together to work on tough problems, is a powerful message in 2008.

People of all backgrounds have voted for that message and gone to their caucuses and polls to get behind that message.

And, no, just because some Clinton supporters on MyDD want this nomination process to be over and to throw Barack Obama under the bus at the first Hannity attack does not mean that Democratic voters will choose to make that happen.

It's still a process of winning votes.

The bar has been set even higher for Senator Clinton and her supporters going forward.

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 05:01:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Johnny - you are absolutely correct! (none / 0)

Obama has lied via omission about his relationship with Rezko - and Obama and the media have minimized it.

Remember when reporters would ask Bush about his AWOL and the Texas National Guard since the mid-90s? And every time Bush would say "that's all there is" - and each time - more info would be revealed.

Chicago reporters have been seeking answers from Obama - but he had refused to meet with them until yesterday....

March 14, 2008
>>>>Obama agreed to meet with Sun-Times and Chicago Tribune reporters after many months of refusing to answer all the questions about the extent of his friendship with Rezko and the amount of money Rezko raised for him over the years.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/ob ama/843582,obama031408a.article

Audio of meeting with reporters - "Rezko not who I thought he was" ---

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/03/ sweet_suntimes.html

This article from April 2007 -- and it's now obvious Obama has been lying - and omitted significant facts about Rezko until he became a front runner.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/35382 9,CST-NWS-rez23.article

Super delegates - listen up! Obama has avoided meeting with reporters to answer questions about Rezko - and Dems could nominate a flawed candidate!

More On Obama And His Rezko Avoidance Affliction
March 4, 2008
http://www.suntimes.com/news/blogentries /index.html?bbPostId=B95LXlrQxuwlCzDeWaL SrtJTQCz3eGmf3g0BF6AJ7Nbtmp36j&bbPar entWidgetId=B7sYvm7oI1Qmz1ERanb5EfZn

Hillary/Obama08

by annefrank on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 07:59:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

We'll see (2.00 / 1)

Obama is pleading with Hillary for two more debates. I am sure both candidates will be asked about the "hate speech" of their supporters.

by ineedalife on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We'll see (none / 0)

Now there's a turn around.
I thought he was too busy in Wisconsin.

by johnnygunn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:43:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We'll see (2.00 / 1)

Actually, it was an invitation by ABC news and both candidates accepted. Please try to reduce the level of unnecessary backhanded spin.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politi cs/blog/2008/03/clinton_ready_for_philly _debat.html

by upstate girl on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We'll see (none / 0)

I thought CBS was conducting the debates.

Hillary/Obama08

by annefrank on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 08:00:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the heads up..... (none / 0)

on the April debates. I know I didn't imagine it, but I thought Obama said he there had been enough debates. What changed?

by zenful6219 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 09:03:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

18% down in PA? (none / 0)

Despite the Obama camp swagger, a blowout loss in PA would be crippling. They are not going to be able to out spend Hillary 4:1 there and she has him out-organized. Destroying Ferraro over a borderline, ear-of-the-beholder, comment was the exact wrong thing to do. He needs some kind of game-changer.

by ineedalife on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 09:33:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 18% down in PA? (none / 0)

The polls differ.

RCP has him down between 13% and 19%. link

He has over a month to close that gap. Do you think Clinton will gain in that month?

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You didn't imagine it. (none / 0)

I heard him say it, too. He said 20 debates was enough, when HRC challenged him to debate in Wisconsin, even though we have only had two head to head debates, and most of the 20 happened when we still had 10 candidates and nobody was paying attention yet.

by georgiapeach on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:00:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Katie Couric will be one of the moderators? (none / 0)

Is this a fucking joke?

by georgiapeach on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 09:56:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Katie Couric will be one of the moderators? (none / 0)

I'm not laughing.

by johnnygunn on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:46:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If we had a drinking game, (2.00 / 1)

and took a shot every time she asked a stupid question, we would all be pretty much in our cups before the first commercial.

by georgiapeach on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:30:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

pleading??? (none / 0)

Please feel free to lie some more.

Why just stop at pleading...
Say he is on his knees

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:10:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We'll see (none / 0)

Kind of like how Hillary pleaded to debate him in Wisconsin?

by mikeinsf on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:10:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not toast. (2.00 / 1)

Dont you think by associating himself with such thoughts, he showed he lacks character and judgement both?

You might say he rejected and renounced etc. But only when pushed by us, the people of America. Why not earlier? And why not walk out of the church the moment you heard it?

Remember what Tip O' Neill had said?

by Sandeep on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't be simplistic (none / 0)

How did you feel when you saw the photos and the footage from the SuperDome?

I know how I felt.

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"I know how I felt." (2.00 / 1)

Okay, kid oakland...

How did you feel?

You have written dozens of diaries supporting Obama on Daily Kos, and now here you are defending him and his "God damn America" pastor.

So don't be coy.

How did you feel? Say it!

"God damn America!"

Maybe you can chant it at the next Obama rally...

"Yes we can!"
"God damn America!"
"Yes we can!"
"God damn America!"

20 years in the same church with the "God damn America" pastor, and Obama never heard of any of it until he started running for President?

No you can't make anybody believe that bullshit!

From those who have not, everything will be taken, even the little that they have. -Matthew 13:12

by Jacob Freeze on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 05:10:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you think (none / 0)

that allowing the MSM to turn Reverend Wright into the "God Damn America" pastor is good for the Democratic Party or that your characterizations reflect my views of the views of Obama supporters, I think you are quite wrong.

In fact, I disagreed with the clips of Wright's words here on MyDD the morning this story broke.

Here's what I said specifically about what I disagreed with in the clip Ben Smith used.

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:45:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you think (none / 0)

"that allowing the MSM to turn Reverend Wright into the "God Damn America" pastor is good for the Democratic Party or that your characterizations reflect my views of the views of Obama supporters, I think you are quite wrong"

But it's Obama's personal faith, his CHURCH association, many people of faith understand the implications.

AS I recall, particularly in evangelical churches, it is expected the pastor will determine the views of the congregation, and it is taken DAMN seriously, the church as much an identifier of self, to others, as skin color, say.

WE may not see it that way, but others do.

by Marsha1 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:17:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you think (none / 0)

"...iit is expected the pastor will determine the views of the congregation..."

What? That is...not how church works.

I am sick to my stomach over how gleefully this progressive blog is trying to dismantle our likely nominee. Can we stop doing the Right's work for them?

by jere7my on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:03:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's how I felt about Katrina (none / 0)

I felt angered that FEMA and the Bush Administration had failed the people of New Orleans in such a basic way.

I was appalled that the poorest and least able to help themselves were left in such a vulnerable position by all three levels of government: municipal, state and federal. I was appalled at how our media reported on New Orleans mainly as a "racially" biased story about looting as the waters rose pushing families from their homes.

I felt that the sea of poor New Orleans residents waiting for days for water and aid, represented not simply a call to action, but a mark of shame for our nation at a failure that we won't soon forget.

The fact that those left behind in New Orleans were largely Black and poor is still, to this day, a mark of shame for all of us, as Americans.

I wrote essays on Dailykos and my own blog saying exactly that at the time.

Do I think a pastor at a Black Church on Chicago's South Side, a Democratic bastion which shares many of the same blights of poverty and violence as New Orleans, is going to express feelings about the treatment of Black Americans in strong terms?

Yes.

Do I think we should coddle the media as the right wing amps up attacks to tear this man and his congregation down...and, in turn, to demean the causes, like Katrina, underlying Rev. Wright's argument with America as a Black man?

No.

We can choose different, more constructive, words to express our disagreement. We can reject Rev. Wright's divisiveness and rhetoric, even as we allow that it was made inside the four walls of his Church.

For myself, I'm surprised at how nakedly divisive your attack on me was. I am sure, as a Democrat, you felt similarly about Katrina.

There's a better way.

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't be simplistic (none / 0)

I felt great sadness when I saw the video and photos from the SuperDome. I saw poor Americans, of all colors, being treated horribly by the Republican-controlled Federal government.

by zenful6219 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 09:05:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I did too (none / 0)

when you say:

I saw poor Americans, of all colors, being treated horribly by the Republican-controlled Federal government.

you are speaking out to something that all of us in the Democratic Party felt. I agree with you.

But some Americans used Katrina to say that God was punishing America and those Katrina victims. Some GOP members of Congress voted against aid.

Now, today, folks are dividing the Democratic party by attacking the pastor of a Black Church in Chicago for expressing his outrage about the treatment of African Americans. He used language we can reject, as Senator Obama has.

But I don't think we get anywhere as a party by fracturing our coalition by throwing pastors who have worked for social justice under the bus for ill-expressed outrage in their Church. We can reject the rhetoric but affirm that there is cause for strong feelings about the history racism in America.

There are issues, like Katrina, that we agree on. We shouldn't let the other side, a side that condones pastors who would say that Katrina was God's punishment for abortion, divide our coalition this way.

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How did you feel.... (none / 0)

when Obama's campaign exploited those people for his political gain. How does effing Jesse Jackson Jr. know if Hillary ever shed a tear for them? I bet he didn't.

by ineedalife on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 09:36:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagreed with Jesse Jackson Jr. (none / 0)

and said so here and on my own blog.

It's rough when even the points I concede get turned around and spun back.

That's not a discussion.

Jacksons' comments about Clinton and Katrina weren't right.

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:48:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not toast. (none / 0)

He rejected and denounced Wright's statements months ago. It made a very minor news story at the time.

This is not the first time this has come up, nor the first time he's categorically denounced Wright's statements. The first time was with very little national attention on it and under no particular pressure to do it.

Remember that he never heard these statements in church. The statements you've heard were made on occasions where it's pretty much certain that Obama was nowhere near the church. By every account there were very few sermons in which Wright said anything of the sort. There is far more reason to believe Obama in this than to disbelieve him. Remember that he's hardly been in a position to be a regular attendee at TUCCC for many years.

by Texas Gray Wolf on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:26:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama deceives (none / 0)

>>>>Remember that he never heard these statements in church

Unfortunately, I believe you think that's significant.

The minister has been guiding Obama for 20 years - and it's obvious Obama wants us to believe he was in church on days other than Christmas and Easter.

Obama is untested and unvetted. Wright is just another example of rolling the dice with Obama.

Rezko is more problematic because Obama has been DECEPTIVE about his relationship with Rezko - minimizing it until AFTER he became a front runner during Rezko's trial.

Hillary/Obama08

by annefrank on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 08:16:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not toast. (none / 0)

I understand what you are saying, but it puts people like my Dad in a difficult situation. He has been defending Sen. Obama from the many in TN who believed the Muslim charges by noting that he has been a member of a Christian church for 20 years....now this comes out and they see it as worse than the Muslim charge.

by DemMom on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 08:39:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He might not have heard these statements (none / 0)

in church, but chances are good that he heard about them. People in churches tend to discuss a barnburner sermon amongst themselves for weeks. And if the clips they are showing on television are indicative of his opinions in general, which they probably are, what are the chances that they didn't bleed into his private conversations outside the pulpit. At any rate, it isn't going to matter whether Obama was physically present for these particular sermons. Most people are going to see him as joined at the hip with a pastor that he has been closely associated with for over 20 years, and will see him as guilty by association. I don't think he is going to be able to run far enough or fast enough to get away from this.

by georgiapeach on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:06:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not toast. (none / 0)

I guess none of the presidential candidates are very good then, if we're just doing the whole guilt by association thing. After all, didn't Clinton, by associating herself with Ferraro, show a lack of character and judgment?

I can't believe anyone actually cares what someone's Pastor says, to be quite honest. I can't wait until we can go and scan through every controversial sermon that every candidate has to answer for... Truly, this primary season has turned into a joke.

by leshrac55 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:12:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not toast. (none / 0)

You want to turn Ferraro into a monster? And you call yourself progressive? Maybe you're too young to remember, but Ferraro has been working for Civil and Human rights probably before you were even born.

MLK would roll over in his grave if he knew people like you were disparaging Ferraro -- and Bill Clinton too, for that matter. After MLK's assassination in 1968, there were horrible and wide spread riots and houses burned to the ground. Young Bill Clinton volunteered for the Red Cross to bring food and clothing to these people who were left homeless by this tragedy. In 1972 the young Hillary Clinton went to Alabama and Georgia to work on belalf of AAs there to make sure civil rights legislation re. school desegregation was being carried out on the local level. I could go on, but maybe you'll find out some of the good works people like Ferraro and th Clintons have been doing for decades when you do your scan.

by moevaughn on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not toast. (none / 0)

Excuse me, but you are judged by the company you keep... don't you know that? Obama just said "I don't repudiate the man ..." speaking on Keith Olbermann's show. The pastor married him and his wife, christened his kids, and "is his mentor". OMG. So, he thinks this guy is okay, but doesn't like some of his words? What? You're known by the company you keep, period. I suppose the head of the KKK said some reasonable things, but I have no problem repudiating the entire KKK, regardless of any good they have ever done. This is the beginnning of the end of Obama. "God damn America..." is language that no one, no one in this country should ever say. It is completely disgusting. I'm sorry I voted for Obama for Senator .... and will not for President.

by PracticalMagic on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:55:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh. Not much of that Obama's a Muslim (none / 0)

stuff going around.

I agree, he'll be fine. And it's about time Americans got to know a little bit about the cadence of churches which aren't white bread and suburban. The "godamn america" stuff was over the top, but other sentiments were pretty mainstream in black and activist churches. It's just funny to me to see so many folks running around like this is new or revolutionary.

by ksh on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:52:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't fool yourself (none / 0)

This is huge and will not die quietly under a rhetorical turnabout. The man baptized his children, married him and his wife.

"god damn america" will not fly. I am about as liberal as it gets, but I am also a big ol' patriot and these comments disgust me. They aren't even debatable for me anymore - they are hateful.

by linc on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:20:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

Obama denounced and rejected Wright, which is a damned sight more than Hillary did with Ferraro.

It's over and dealt with.

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

by Walt Starr on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:28:13 PM EST

Re: 20 LONG YEARS to DISTANCE (2.00 / 4)

No Walter Starr,

SERIOUS DAMAGE IS DONE ! And this DAMAGE will ONLY escalate as more americans watch this video.

Walt, would you go to a church with a Pastor who says things like that ?

Would you ask a Pastor like that to marry you?

Would you ask a Pastor like that to baptized your very own kids!

PLEASE! What do you call someone who associates himself for 20 LONG years with a character who spews Anti-White, Anti-American sermons ???

DAMAGE DONE! GAME OVER!

Do you think the 19 Million White Reagan Democrats who are already very skeptical of Obama vote for him after seeing this?

Do you think that the 36 Million white democratic leaning seniors would vote for Obama after seeing this?

Sorry, 20 LONG years is more than enough time to DISTANCE yourself from a Black Bigot !

There are ONLY Two Groups of people in America who are GIVING Obama a FREE pass!

White Liberals & some African-American die hard obama supporters.

The 75% of the country will find this outrageous.

Wright & his followers are No Different than some White Southern Evangelical Churches. They are all racist!

by latinfighter on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

R U really DemLady4Life? (none / 0)

LOL

by bigdcdem on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:15:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 20 LONG YEARS to DISTANCE (none / 0)

Wow.

You're not taking the fact that Hillary has almost no mathematical chance to win very well, are you?

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

by Walt Starr on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 20 LONG YEARS to DISTANCE (2.00 / 1)

You obviously didn't do well in math. NO mathematical possibility? The number of SD up for grabs say otherwise, and if they see Wright's comments tighten the noose around Obama's neck, they will go with Hillary as the safe bet.

Black America will then have to make a choice, work from within the Party, vote Republican or sit the election out, which is just the same as option 2.

Considering Black America did rather well under Clinton compared to any other President over the previous 40 years, option 1 would be their best option. Unlike the GOP, at least the Democratic Party can point to Leaders in Congress who hold very significant positions of power that aren't the White Guy. John Conyers and Charles Rangell come to mind for starters.

by SoCalHillMan on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 04:26:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cynthia McKinney (none / 0)

Will get at least half the African American vote if Hillary Clinton is the nominee. If that happens it will be practically impossible for the Dems to win states like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

by johnnygunn on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 10:55:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cynthia McKinney (none / 0)

Naw, the Reagan Democrats come home to Hillary, those who don't want 100 years in Iraq and war with Iran come home to Hillary, and the long association of the Clintons in supporting the African-American community will bring them home to Hillary too. Add the seniors, the majority of the women, and she will be unstoppable against John McCain, a nice man, but a hothead we don't need to have in charge of the most powerful military force the world has ever seen.

by PracticalMagic on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:01:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cynthia McKinney (none / 0)

If Hillary gets this, the only way will be through superdelegates pulling a coup over the pledged delegates. Expect open rebellion at the Convention and soft support at the voting booth.

by mikeinsf on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:13:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cynthia McKinney (none / 0)

I fear that such is wishful thinking.

by johnnygunn on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 20 LONG YEARS to DISTANCE (none / 0)

Is this snark? It's so ridiculous it almost seems like it has to be...

by leshrac55 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:13:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 20 LONG YEARS to DISTANCE (none / 0)

Wright & his followers are No Different than some White Southern Evangelical Churches. They are all racist!

I hope you realize that Obama is one of Wright's followers and has been for 20 years. So, are you saying Obama's also a racist?

by zenful6219 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 09:10:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: free pass (none / 0)

not all white liberals -- just the knee-jerk ones

by moevaughn on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 4)

Can't disagree with too much here--or your right to be all around peeved at where we are. Well flamed.

by chieflytrue on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:29:25 PM EST

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 1)

He's going to be on the cable networks tonight discussing the issue. Don't give up on a longer and better discourse. He also had a very good response in depth at Huffington Post that I thought, at least, addressed the essential points and left the door wide open for a longer dialog.

I understand that a lot of the hyperbole and outraged reaction from some of the posters on this board is coming from a feeling of fear. I think Obama is genuine when he talks about building a more united country.

I really don't think that this issue has the capacity to split the nation like it might have even ten years ago. The Bush years taught Democrats a lot about the political attack machine and what it covers up. I don't think Obama would have gotten as far as he has now if it wasn't evident to an ever growing majority of people that these kinds of attacks that use fear instead of common sense to target are transparent.

Remember too, in the general - he goes into that race with the full and united support of the Democratic party leaders and support structure. He still has his massive grassroots base. He has every tactical advantage he will need to counteract the Republican machine (and their finances aren't looking that hot this year). There is more than enough reason to hope.

I'm going to do voter registration tomorrow in PA for exactly that reason. If we're truly worried about what the Republicans will do to Obama in the general, the time is now to do the groundwork.

by upstate girl on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:36:31 PM EST

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 1)

Since you are one of the sane supporters of Obama, I will ask you this.

Dont you think by associating himself with such a person and such thoughts, he showed he lacks character and judgement?

You might say he rejected and renounced etc. But only when pushed by us, the people of America. Why not earlier? And why not walk out of the church the moment you heard it?

Remember what Tip O' Neill had said?

I am happy that you are going to PA for voter registration even if that helps someone I dislike:-)

by Sandeep on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

No, what did Tip O'Neill say? You've posted this a couple of times without elaborating.

And has everyone forgotten that McCain begged for the endorsement of Falwell, who said even worse things than Wright? I think this Wright stuff is bad, but I'm hoping that McCain can't really make too much hay of it giving his own religious-nutcase issues (Falwell, Hagee).

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

Falwell is dead isn't he? I really don't think that's going to be an issue. If McCain had long relationships with some of these people and had them on his campaign it might have some traction but he doesn't.

No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!

by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:19:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

Tip O'Neil said a lot of things

"All politics is local"

"Politics ain't bean bag" (not original)

"That young Chris Matthews seems like a bright kid. Hire him"

"I'm tellin' ya, Fritz, with Geri Ferraro on the ticket, ya can't lose!"

"Oh, I guess I'll have one more" (a personal favorite of mine).

by BlueinColorado on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:37:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

and of course, "Never fight a land war in Asia!"

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:16:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 1)

No, because I grew up Catholic and fully understand that you can be a member of a religious community and not agree 100% with everything your religion or your pastor says. I'm far more concerned about the integrity, intelligence, and skill of his policy chairs and his cabinet members. Those are the people that he'll be working with as President, not his pastor.

I've seen you mention Tip O'Neill a couple times and I still don't know what you're talking about.

by upstate girl on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 1)

One more thing - gonna rec' this because I think its good to talk about genuine concerns about Obama, and not false concern trolling. Good thoughts in here, even if I may not agree with them all or feel things will have a different ending.

by upstate girl on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:40:28 PM EST

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 1)

Haha, Universal and the other concern trolls rec'd your diary. Do they just read the title and not anything else?

by upstate girl on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:42:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 1)

Too many folks just read titles.

Over at Big Orange there were a half-dozen attacks before I could do a second click. Don't they realize that the time stamp shows that they could not have possibly read the diary? Even with Evelyn Sped Wood Redding?

by johnnygunn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:00:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 2)

Well, I'm glad I took the time to read it and I hope they someday might too. I hate the fact that people that are genuinely concerned at what Obama might have to do, or not do, to save his political career at the expense of his integrity or the dignity of his church get drowned out in the white noise concern trolls.

by upstate girl on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:08:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 3)

I have to say one thing.

The responses here at MyDD are far more rational than those at the Big Orange. I had to switch computers because the other one caught on fire.

I don't know.

I don't see a statement like "God damn America!" ever going away. It's too succinct, it's too raw. Nobody except politicos will remember what McCain said about his lobbyist friend - or what Ferraro said about race - or even what Falwell said about 9-11. But this is going to get lots of air time. And people will remember it. People who are not highly politically engaged, but who do vote - on limited information.

It is very bad news.

by johnnygunn on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:45:50 PM EST

How did you feel when (none / 0)

you saw the photos from the SuperDome after Katrina?

k/o: politics and local blogs

by kid oakland on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:46:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

He denounced and rejected it. The guy isn't the pastor any more. Unless they can place Obama at the church when the sermon was happening, this isn't going to be more that a roadbump. By the time the general rolls around this will be seriously old news.

Most people understand that churches are very much social constructs, and it's almost impossible to find one where you'll agree with everything a pastor says all the time - especially when they get political. His comments are absolutely indefensible, but Obama isn't defending them.

by mattw on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:54:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

Excuse me, but you are judged by the company you keep... don't you know that? Obama just said "I don't repudiate the man ..." speaking on Keith Olbermann's show. The pastor married him and his wife, christened his kids, and "is his mentor". OMG. So, he thinks this guy is okay, but doesn't like some of his words? What? You're known by the company you keep, period. And, for 20 years? And, on DVD's and CD's for distribution? I suppose the head of the KKK said some reasonable things somewhere, but I have no problem repudiating the entire KKK completely and forever, regardless of any good they have ever done. It certainly wouldn't take 20 years to "wake up". This is the beginnning of the end of Obama. "God damn America..." is language that no one, no one in this country should ever say. It is completely disgusting. I'm sorry I voted for Obama for Senator .... and will not for President.

by PracticalMagic on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:06:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 0)

Hyperbole much?

by conqdad on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:49:00 PM EST

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 3)

I agree that Sen. Obama has zero chance of being elected 44th President of the United States. If nominated he will lose, and lose BIG. In fact, here is my prediction for how the McCain-Obama race would end up, in EVs: Obama wins the following states: IL, HI, MA, VT and DC, for a total of 47. McCain wins the remaining 46 states (yes, even CA and NY) for a total of 491. A Republican ass-kicking that we've not seen since '84.

Hillary, on the other hand, has a shot. I think she'd win all of the Kerry states, plus OH, WV and minus NH, to eke out a 273-265 win and end the Bush Legacy.

Go Hillary!

by AzSaxCat on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:50:26 PM EST

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 0)

"Zero chance of being elected"..."lose and lose BIG"..."A Republican ass-kicking."

Way to support the party.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:17:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 3)

Actually, and although it may not seem like it to all you Obamaniacs, I AM supporting it by suggesting that the Dems may wanna think twice before allowing this guy to be nominated. If he is, the Repugs will absolutely CRUCIFY him. The SwiftBoating by the 527s will be merciless. And you know all of those Reagan Democrat types in those Rust Belt states? The ones that are solidly in Hillary's corner in the states where she does well, and which the Dems need to win (e.g., MI, OH, PA)? Well, they'd be just fine with McCain, who is still widely, if incorrectly, perceived as a moderate. They will NOT be fine with Barack Hussein Obama. Older women, a bloc without whose support the Democrats cannot win, will be so pissed off that this guy came along and stole a rare opportunity for them to have a female President that they too will vote for McCain for solely that reason.

Sen Obama will be successfully painted by the GOP as a not-ready-for primetime lightweight and the most liberal Democratic Presidential nominee since McGovern. Oh, and as a Muslim too, by the way. And I really do think that McCain could win big-blue strongholds like California and New York, largely due to his Hispanic support, something Obama still doesn't seem to have much of. Even if Obama is lucky enough to win CA and NY, it would not be enough to prevent a GOP landslide, let alone victory.

So go ahead and continue to support Obama. Just be prepared see that map light up blood red from coast to coast on the evening of Nov. 4 as you picture Karl Rove laughing his ass off while you are sobbing, wondering how the Democatic party so badly blew an election that had been handed to them on a silver platter.

Not supporting the Dems? I in fact really am -- with a little bit of much needed tough love.

by AzSaxCat on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:15:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

SUSA and other polls indicate your opinion is completely wrong. Obama is already being swiftboated by 527s, so if he can survive here, he'll do fine in November. Hillary has plenty of weak spots they can attack - Marc Rich, Hsu, Tan family. If Obama were playing rough with her, Monsanto would be a household name already.

by mattw on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:57:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (2.00 / 2)

Well, that's the thing about opinions: they can be wrong and mine may very well be. But those SUSA maps, I mean, reeeealy! Obama winning North Dakota? Virginia? ANY part of Nebraska? And Clinton losing Oregon and Washington? Sorry, but I take very little stock in hypothetical polls, and that's all these can be until the Dem nomination is set in stone.

As for the swiftboating of Hillary, she is a known quantity to almost everybody. There's really not much more more damage you can do to her. People know she has something of a corporate dark side. Yes, she may not be little Mrs. Perfect, but at least she can make a credible case that she can run the country, and, sorry, but less than 7 years out from the country having been attacked, voters still do think about national security. And, unlike Obama (or McCain) for that matter, she doen't associate with religious nut jobs. Like it or not, she's the best thing we Dems have going right now.

Obama is quite another story. He's not as well-known. But the GOP will take care of that. Personally, I'd rather take my chances with Hillary.

by AzSaxCat on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:35:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

I could very well say the same thing--Obama losing Pennsylvania and New Jersey? And the poll didn't show Obama winning in North Dakota.

What the S-USA polls DID show was that Obama was a lot closer in many states where Hillary was down 20 and 30 points to McCain. As I've said repeatedly, it's not about Obama winning Idaho or Wyoming, it's about being competitive enough to boost downticket candidates.

And you're right--there's not much more damage you can do to Hillary because she's already been damaged for 14 years now. Everyone keeps saying she's already been "vetted," which is somewhat true. But that "vetting" has taken taken major chunks out of her. In other words, the attacks on the Clintons over the years have accomplished exactly what they were intended to do, which is leave her as a wounded candidate with high permanent negatives.

And to be frank, it's utterly naive to think that only Obama is going to be attacked by 527s. Do you really think the GOP will give their scurrilous attacks a rest if Hillary's the nominee because they've attacked her before? As we learned in 2004, NOTHING is off-limits, and if they can bring Kerry down, it's unwise to be glib about Hillary's prospects.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 05:38:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As an older woman (none / 0)

who voted for Hillary in Ohio, I disagree strongly that most older women would be so pissed off by an Obama nomination that we'd either not vote, or vote for McCain. I would choke on my coffee before voting for McCain...& I will - FOR SURE - work for & vote for Obama if he gets the nomination. I don't know any other female contemporaries who would do otherwise. So I don't know who is dreaming up this 'old woman's revenge' meme, but I personally think it's not relevant.

by Lynwaz on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As an older woman (none / 0)

Im a middle aged woman and I will never vote for Obama on the ticket without HRC after the way he has split the party
I will vote for McCain if it comes to that or write in HRC
And as a participant in a Democracy it is my right to not blindly follow the party do please dont attack me as a traitor, I have been voting Dem my entire life but I wont hold my nose for this candidate

look for McCain Dems come the Fall if Obama is the nominee

ginaswo

by ginaswo on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:49:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She doesn't have a shot (none / 0)

Much of that vote is in the Deep South, where Dems won't win anyway. How much do you think it really matters?

by AzSaxCat on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:44:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She doesn't have a shot (none / 0)

WI, MO, FL,OH,PA, MN all flip or stay red without high African American turnout.

by Socraticsilence on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:47:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She doesn't have a shot (none / 0)

Keep in mind that turnout among the Bible Thumpers will be depressed too. The Religious right haven't forgiven McCain for calling them (rightly) Agents Of Intolerance. (Why do you think he's been hanging out with the likes of Hagee and Parsely?)

This would probably neutralize any lack of AA turnout in those "purple" states.

by AzSaxCat on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:08:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She doesn't have a shot (none / 0)

It depends on how it goes down. If it is clear to black voters that Obama has become so compromised he cannot win, she may not lose them. On the other hand, if it looks like a backroom deal stealing the election, she will.

by foxx on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:11:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She doesn't have a shot (2.00 / 1)

Also, we can't assume that the entire AA bloc will stay home, whatever the case. There will probably be enough of those voters who will be willing to bite the bullet and vote for her, if for no other reason, to keep McCain from winning. And half those voters are also women. That will still count for something, as well.

by AzSaxCat on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:31:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

Don't forget about little ol' Arkansas ... 6 more votes!

by PracticalMagic on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:07:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She doesn't have a shot (none / 0)

The 35 years of the Clintons supporting the African-American community, the "first black President", and all the good the Clinton Administration did for the black community will bring them home to Hillary. No one blames them for voting for one of their own. They are more for Obama then they are against Hillary. The memory of the good the Clintons have done will bring them back, when Hillary is the nominee.

by PracticalMagic on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:10:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Is Toast - - Toast (none / 0)

No way she'll win. If somehow she pulls it off, expect one term and a GOP congress by 2012.

by mikeinsf on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 11:16:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She doesn't have a shot (none / 0)

what about the Latina vote? This is the biggest minority in the nation now, it will NOT vote for Obama over McCain, Latinas respect McCain for the immigration bill

ginaswo

by ginaswo on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 02:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If McCain's running mate were Mitt Romney (none / 0)

Obama wouldn't even win MA -- his numbers in MA were low, and Mitt won the state on the R side.

He was a good governor of MA.

But Hillary would have a chance of winning MA even if Romney were on the ticket.

Hillary-- in FL vs. McCain in Florida, also very good chance of winning.

BO vs. McCain in FL-- upper hand McCain.

Hillary is best shot to win the Presidency.

by chieflytrue on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 06:53:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You Hillbots are (none / 0)

so out of touch with reality. It's comical.

by bigdcdem on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 09:51:35 PM EST

Re: You Hillbots are (2.00 / 0)

Two potential injuries for Obama vis a vis Rev. Wright: 1) His "Judgment" claim is diluted and 2) The "Manchurian" candidate meme is revived. Here is what Obama should do.

He should immediately give a glowing public speech in which he completely repudiates Rev. Wright and his cohorts. Then, within that same speech he should use his oratorical gift to profess how much this great nation means to him and how he is poised to make it even better. When he wins another election, he should give a speech similar to the one he gave at the Dem. Nat. Convention. Obama can turn this around.

by Actright on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You Hillbots are (2.00 / 0)

I absolutely think he can. He's been able to handle these issues all along and handle them well, this will be no different. I almost guarantee that his campaign has been ready for this situation before they even decided to run. No one that's run a revolutionary campaign like this would let this issue completely blindside them. He's already doing excellent public discussions, and he's going on the national media outlets. It will be effectively defused.

by upstate girl on